I have been suffering harassment from a neighbour recently. I decided to invest in a camera so that I could collect evidence of harassment and bullying that I have been the victim of.
The neighbour approached me when I was in my back garden the other day. Before they could even get a chance to speak, I immediately took out my camera and started recording them. The neighbour told me to "put that off right now or I will phone the police". I continued recording the conversation with the neighbour, informing them that it was my right to record anyone in public. I was standing in my own back garden at the time that I recorded the footage, with the camera pointed towards them standing at their back door. After arguing with them for some time, they said to me "don't be ********ing cheeky with me". I told them that swearing at me could be considered a breach of the peace. They slammed the door on me.
The next day, the police arrived at my door to speak to me. They told me that I was not being charged, but that they were just wanted to speak to me regarding a complaint from a neighbour. The police were friendly enough with me, but told me that the had to inform me of the laws on recording people.I told the police that I believed that it was my right to record anyone in public, even without their consent as they have no expectation of privacy. The officer told me that my information was wrong.The officer told me that I am not allowed to record people, even in public without their consent. I asked "under what law ?". He replied that it was human rights and also breach of the peace as the neighbour claimed that they had felt "threatened" by my use of the camera.
The officer told me to delete the footage that I had taken as it would be illegal for me to keep the data. He said that if the video ended showing up somewhere - e.g. online - that the neighbour could "take it all the way". I complied with the officer and deleted the footage; however, I had thought that only a court could order me to delete the video.
I was sure that I had the right to record anyone in public (even the police themselves). If you are in public you have no "expectation of privacy" and therefore it would not be a violation of human rights as you have not invaded their privacy in the first place.The officer has told me not to record people again or I could be charged.
The officer did try to be helpful and has provided me with the phone number of the local community officer. I have been told that in future, I should contact this community officer if there is a confrontation with the neighbours.
Are the police correct regarding the law on recording in public ?The reason I ask is that I believe that the officer may be misinformed.I do not mean to sound arrogant, but even the police *can* be wrong sometimes, even in instances regarding law.
It is of great concern to me as my camera is the last line of defence against harassment from the neighbour and my only way to collect evidence should the neighbour start on me when no other witnesses are present.
I went to court with my neighbor over their violation of the barking dog ordinance. She was placed on probation. The prosecuting attorney told me it is legal to install a security camera outside my window that overlooks my neighbors back yard. I have installed a camera that records audio and video. The attorney said it would be admissible in court. I am in Missouri but imagine the law is the same in most states. If the police threaten me with arrest I will tell them to arrest me. I will then sue the city for false arrest and sue the officers personally in civil court. Don't let police bully you. It is not their job to interpret the law. Let them arrest you if they want. You will win in court.
I was recently approached by one of the neighbours in public. I have uploaded the video here: http://youtu.be/bXfHwAHAkso The police have told me that I am not allowed to record people, even in public. They told me that no criminal law has been broken, and that it is not a police matter, but that I may have infringed his civil rights and that if it was to go to a civil court then I would "not have a leg to stand on". This is ridiculous as I was in public, and according to everything I have read on the matter, I was perfectly within my rights. The police again seemed very insistent that I should 'destroy' the footage, as they say that I have no reason to keep it.
Your loss. Correct your stupid spam filter. I had written 5 paragraphs, none of which will be seen by anyone. I don't have time to figure out why it won't take my comment. So I'm moving on. The paragraphs will just be lost. Next time don't have a buggy page handling input.
I wrote a wonderful response, and the robot thought it was an attempt at malic, LOL. Your loss. Ok, I try once more..
It is hard to see any legal or rational basis for the council's position. There are really only two possibilities here: either they are just making up rules as they go, or there is some catch-all clause in the tenancy agreement that they are interpreting to prohibit your camera, probably regarding antisocial behaviour or harassment. Their motivation is likely to be simply that they are trying to defuse a dispute between you and your neighbour without having to take the trouble to determine who is harassing whom.
What I would do (but not necessarily what you should do - see my disclaimer at the bottom) is write to the council. Not phone or face to face or email, a real letter is likely to get taken more seriously. Send it recorded delivery and keep a copy.
I have to point out that I am not a trained legal professional and this is not legal advice that you should rely upon. This site exists to educate on general principles of photographic access, and your circumstances are complicated by areas of law I know far less about. Advice from a tenants group, the CAB, a law centre or solicitor would be a good idea, before doing anything.
Photorights admin
I have an update.
I want to go down the route of CCTV, which will of course be able to record ONLY my garden. However, the council has said that I would need permission to install it, as it is an alteration.
I have put a camera on a tripod up at my window, which can only see my back garden. It cannot see into any neighbours garden or windows.
The neighbours have made a complaint to the police and the council. The council have told me that I would need permission even to have a camera INSIDE the house at a window. They say that failure to remove it could be a breach of tenancy. I find this ridiculous as the camera is INSIDE the house and not attached to the councils' house in any way. CCTV is also NOT mentioned in my tenancy agreement.
Surely the council are wrong. I should not need permission to put a camera on a tripod at my own window to record ONLY my garden.
Could someone please clarify as I think that this is not right for the council to be able to say what is INSIDE my own house.
What do you need to know that hasn't already been covered in this thread?
Photorights admin
Hi - wondering if we could have an update on this please as we are suffering similar situation here.
Recording your own back garden is the same. Using CCTV to record people on their own private property, but from your own property, would be equally filled with legal hazard.
I think the situation is the same. You would strictly speaking need to advise your neighbour that you were recording the conversation if it occurs on his property. And of course he would refuse.
Interestingly, Racal make a microphone array for use in areas like shopping malls and airports, to enable the CCTV operator to zone in and eavesdrop on any conversation. But that's a different case, limited to use on private property.
Legally it's within the bounds of what is normally permitted, yes. But you are here overlaying that situation with existing legal difficulties and dispute. It could be construed as harassment if you do it more than once. It seems certain to result in more visits from the police.
I think you have to stand back from this and look at it from the authorities' point of view, that what they have here is 2 individuals who appear determined to perpetuate a feud. Who started it and who's got the moral high ground is likely to matter a deal less than who's demanding their attention and spoiling a nice quiet day at work. With that in mind, anything that either you or your neighbour does that might result in escalation is likely to be stamped upon using any law they can stretch to make a point - their point being "shut up, behave, be nice". At this point filming is not going to help. You need to get the council and police on your side by behaving in ways that they can understand clearly as victim rather than aggressor. At present all they have is your word against your neighbour's, with both claiming it's all the other person's fault.
See above. Basically any behaviour that can cause the "victim" to feel threatened, alarmed, intimidated or targeted can lead to antisocial behaviour charges, or even harassment if it's done more than once (demonstrates a pattern of behaviour). Either will get you a criminal record, and the life consequences that ensue.
It appears you are running that risk. Whilst it's not a bad idea to document wrongdoing, doing so is clearly being represented as aggression here and allowing your neighbour to appear to be the injured party. I can only suggest you don't do any more recording or filming until you've had a discussion with the Council about the whole history of the dispute and asked what they can do about it, and whether they need evidence, and if so, whether or how you can help. The CAB is a good idea.
Photorights admin
Consider what sort of camera your using, a 'normal' hand-held video camera is obvious, however a discrete mini-camera worn not held is much less likely to draw attention...
The Veho VCC-003 Muvi micro DV Camcorder is one such device.
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